The Gerbstadts that I have traced are from North/Northwestern Germany while the names originate in the East. There is at least 600 years of migration to get from Thuringa/Sachsen/Bayern to Hannover and Hamburg. The names and places were the result of trying to document my guess as to the sefinitions of the surnames. I did not expect to find castles and cities and such.
I have written to an administrator in Gerbstet with the hope that he can put me in touch with the organization that erected miniatures of famous but ruined places in that region and within the city itself. If anyone can tell me where and when the name started and who the cities' founders and protectors were it would be that historical society. Will let you all know when a response arrives.
As for the particulars that I know, I am still trying to write something up regarding the research. Even though this is for the family, I'd hate to plagerize.
Tuesday, November 4, 2008
Saturday, November 1, 2008
A new lead
So Kevin tells me that the only other thing he knows for certain is that Gramma was originally from Leipzig.
Leipzig is just a few minutes from Merseburg. Merseburg at one time was the Rieger-Bezerk of Sachsen. That is to say, a regional seat of the district of Saxony, Prussia. This is the information contained in the Wappenbuch under the heading of Gerbstaedt. A town of Gerbstadt lies just north and west of Leipzig in a region of Mansfeld. Schloss Lauenstein lies about 200 miles south of these cities.
This connection, though tenuous, leads me to believe that I have been on the right track as far as locating the origins of Gramma's family name. I had not suspected to find a historic connection between the two families. I had thought due to the creation of a Gerbstadt crest, that the Gerbstadts were ennobled before the Lauensteins. Now I see that is not the case due to extensive quartering of the Lauenstein crest which pertains to this region of Lauenstein. The Gerbstadt crest is not quartered though two shields appear next to each other on the field. Either the crest began with a blended family or the family blended with another after its initial creation. In either case, the crest indicates that the landed status of the Gerbstadt family did not continue into another generation.
So what is the likelihood either set of grandparents belonged to a noble family? Excellent, though not in a way that you might imagine. I doubt, given Gramma's Jewish heritage, that she herself is descended from nobility. It is most likely that they belonged to a German noble through acquisition, the surname indicating possession rather than birthright.
Leipzig is just a few minutes from Merseburg. Merseburg at one time was the Rieger-Bezerk of Sachsen. That is to say, a regional seat of the district of Saxony, Prussia. This is the information contained in the Wappenbuch under the heading of Gerbstaedt. A town of Gerbstadt lies just north and west of Leipzig in a region of Mansfeld. Schloss Lauenstein lies about 200 miles south of these cities.
This connection, though tenuous, leads me to believe that I have been on the right track as far as locating the origins of Gramma's family name. I had not suspected to find a historic connection between the two families. I had thought due to the creation of a Gerbstadt crest, that the Gerbstadts were ennobled before the Lauensteins. Now I see that is not the case due to extensive quartering of the Lauenstein crest which pertains to this region of Lauenstein. The Gerbstadt crest is not quartered though two shields appear next to each other on the field. Either the crest began with a blended family or the family blended with another after its initial creation. In either case, the crest indicates that the landed status of the Gerbstadt family did not continue into another generation.
So what is the likelihood either set of grandparents belonged to a noble family? Excellent, though not in a way that you might imagine. I doubt, given Gramma's Jewish heritage, that she herself is descended from nobility. It is most likely that they belonged to a German noble through acquisition, the surname indicating possession rather than birthright.
Friday, October 31, 2008
time to play "What do You Know?"
"Not much. You?" Is the audience response for the NPR talk show. I feel like it should be mine for anything that has to do with this quest. It would seem from the last family conversation that i can't trust some of what mom told me. She's the one who said that Gramma never learned to speak English. In the follwing I will list what I heard by accident that has always stuck with me, the things that were direct answers to questions and some of the cryptic things Grampa said to me.
- Grampa had a brother Wilhelm: served in WWI, and was lost. Naturally I assume that meant that he had died. The helmet and service revolver that Grampa kept in the third bedroom was said to have belonged to Willie.
- David Gerbstadt said his uncle was Wilhelm, that he emigrated and that he worked in a bakery in dearborn in the 1930's
- Grampa talked with Marty Killian about several places in the old country associated with the family: Schwabia, Bavaria, Bohemia, Hamburg, Hannover and a large old church there that was kitty corner from the family bakery, and a place called Sachsen.
- Grampa's dad was a baker
- Grampa worked in the bakery as a kid and hated math, especially math involved in recipe division and multiplication
- Mom called Gramma a Bohemian when I was being just like her and mom didn't like it. She called Gramma a Bavarian when we did homework.
- Grampa talked a few times about Orlamunds.
What does it all amount to? Leads to be sure... but beyond that only time will teall.
Dredging the past
Many would say that the past is best left in the past, that it can serve no purpose to expose the pain and misery that our descendants suffered. I have always advocated knowing the truth, past to present. The past is a complete education; an ancestor's misery can be our road sign to avoid pitfalls. The past can also inspire and instruct. A family history is so much more than a bunch of facts and figures, though those are important too. I have always believed that. Until I talked to Kevin last night.
He didn't know that Grampa had a sister.
You see, I always have assumed that because Anne's kids are older than us, that they knew more about the family than did we. After all, they had years with Grampa when he was younger, more vibrant and capable of remembering in greater detail... not that his mind was ever dull. They would have done the same homework requiring the construction of a family tree... I thought. Apparently that was not always the back to school assignment of choice for teachers then. So I tell Kevin about Erna as he had not read the blog yet. And he didn't know.
How could he not know about her? How could he not know about Willie either? And this makes me wonder how much more I want to know. I mean, what could make siblings disavow any knowledge of each other? I was told it was about a recipe and working in the bakery. David Gerbstadt of PA said the same thing. But since I didn't know that Gramma Ada was Jewish, I wonder if the recipe was just a convenient disguise for bigotry in the family. And here is the thing... David knew about Grampa. We just didn't know about David and his family. so I wonder, again, what keeps you from acknowledging your siblings to your children and grandchildren?
It is sad. And I don't think I want to know. I almost idolize Grampa for the contributions he made to my becoming who I am. How will I feel about him if I find out that he was the reason there was a fight and he was the one who would not forgive? But what if I find that I like these other cousins and we become friends? Would Grampa think it was betrayal to like someone he clearly did not? Is even looking a betrayal of Grampa's love?
Of course, I could be too close to the whole thing since it is my family and there are generational patterns playing out even now with my own siblings. Grampa had told someone about Willie... mom and Anne fought about namesakes. And I remember several occasions where Gramma Olive rode Grampa about it, resulting in better details for the homework. I just wish that I remembered more than I did. I think. But still... no one mentioned Erna except to tease Aunt Anne about a name she said was not hers. How does this happen? Do I want to know?
He didn't know that Grampa had a sister.
You see, I always have assumed that because Anne's kids are older than us, that they knew more about the family than did we. After all, they had years with Grampa when he was younger, more vibrant and capable of remembering in greater detail... not that his mind was ever dull. They would have done the same homework requiring the construction of a family tree... I thought. Apparently that was not always the back to school assignment of choice for teachers then. So I tell Kevin about Erna as he had not read the blog yet. And he didn't know.
How could he not know about her? How could he not know about Willie either? And this makes me wonder how much more I want to know. I mean, what could make siblings disavow any knowledge of each other? I was told it was about a recipe and working in the bakery. David Gerbstadt of PA said the same thing. But since I didn't know that Gramma Ada was Jewish, I wonder if the recipe was just a convenient disguise for bigotry in the family. And here is the thing... David knew about Grampa. We just didn't know about David and his family. so I wonder, again, what keeps you from acknowledging your siblings to your children and grandchildren?
It is sad. And I don't think I want to know. I almost idolize Grampa for the contributions he made to my becoming who I am. How will I feel about him if I find out that he was the reason there was a fight and he was the one who would not forgive? But what if I find that I like these other cousins and we become friends? Would Grampa think it was betrayal to like someone he clearly did not? Is even looking a betrayal of Grampa's love?
Of course, I could be too close to the whole thing since it is my family and there are generational patterns playing out even now with my own siblings. Grampa had told someone about Willie... mom and Anne fought about namesakes. And I remember several occasions where Gramma Olive rode Grampa about it, resulting in better details for the homework. I just wish that I remembered more than I did. I think. But still... no one mentioned Erna except to tease Aunt Anne about a name she said was not hers. How does this happen? Do I want to know?
Wednesday, October 29, 2008
The Traveling Gerbstadts
Moris Gerbstadt born in 1901: departed 24 August 1905 aboard the "Blucher" bound for Germany had been residing in Detroit MI.
Frieda Gerbstadt born in 1865 accompanied Moris on his overseas voyage.
No further information for either of them is available at this time. I do not know if they returned and no reason for their departure is listed. But I suspect that this is the boy for whom Brian acquired the M. on his birthcertificate. Although, I have seen a german birthcertificate and the M. appears before a boy name because so many germanic names are actually transgendered. Little girls have F. in front of their names. It's just a german thing that might have tripped Grampa up with lasting consequence for Brian.
Emma Gerbstadt born in 1888 departed Hamburg aboard the "Cincinnati" and arrived in NY, New York 19 September 1909. No further information was taken by the purser on this voyage.
I have no further information on this group of Gerbstadt immagrants with these spellings, no point of origin, no year of emigration; I only know at this point that the 1900 Wayne County census listed the following family: Amiel H. (father) and Fredreska (mother). Children listed are Emma b. Feb. 1888, George b. Oct 1889, Freddie b. Sept. 1893, Frank b. Dec. 1885 and Hugo born in 1898/99.
An Elfreidt Gerbstadt b. 26 April 1906 was naturalized 29 August 1935. No immagration records are available at this time.
Emil and Amiel are variations of the same name as are Frederika and Fredreska. These could be the same people. I think that they are because the consistant information is the child Hugo born in 1998. At the time of the 1930 census he was 31 years old and the only child listed living with the parents. The 1900 census in which I found Amiel and Fredreska asks what age the children were the year prior to the census being taken; Hugo's age is listed as 1 year. The difference between 98 and 99 is the time of year in which the form was sent in relation to when Hugo was born. Undoubtedly these are the same people.
Frieda Gerbstadt born in 1865 accompanied Moris on his overseas voyage.
No further information for either of them is available at this time. I do not know if they returned and no reason for their departure is listed. But I suspect that this is the boy for whom Brian acquired the M. on his birthcertificate. Although, I have seen a german birthcertificate and the M. appears before a boy name because so many germanic names are actually transgendered. Little girls have F. in front of their names. It's just a german thing that might have tripped Grampa up with lasting consequence for Brian.
Emma Gerbstadt born in 1888 departed Hamburg aboard the "Cincinnati" and arrived in NY, New York 19 September 1909. No further information was taken by the purser on this voyage.
I have no further information on this group of Gerbstadt immagrants with these spellings, no point of origin, no year of emigration; I only know at this point that the 1900 Wayne County census listed the following family: Amiel H. (father) and Fredreska (mother). Children listed are Emma b. Feb. 1888, George b. Oct 1889, Freddie b. Sept. 1893, Frank b. Dec. 1885 and Hugo born in 1898/99.
An Elfreidt Gerbstadt b. 26 April 1906 was naturalized 29 August 1935. No immagration records are available at this time.
Emil and Amiel are variations of the same name as are Frederika and Fredreska. These could be the same people. I think that they are because the consistant information is the child Hugo born in 1998. At the time of the 1930 census he was 31 years old and the only child listed living with the parents. The 1900 census in which I found Amiel and Fredreska asks what age the children were the year prior to the census being taken; Hugo's age is listed as 1 year. The difference between 98 and 99 is the time of year in which the form was sent in relation to when Hugo was born. Undoubtedly these are the same people.
Meet Emil Gerbstadt, baker
I knew from a david Gerbstadt in Pennsylvania that there was a family bakery in Detroit and that his grandfather, Wilhelm, was some how affiliated with it. From the sketchy stories I had heard, I thought that the bakery belonged to Wilhelm. In its last days it may have. But the bakery started, I surmise, with Emil.
Emil was born 15 May 1859 in Kretzschan, Saxony and left the port of Hamburg aboard the "Hammonia", arriving in the states 1 July, 1884. Five years later, on 10 March 1899 hecame a naturalized citizen of the United States in Ward 2 Detroit MI.
He applied for a travel visa to Germany twice. The first time was 12 February 1904, one month after Erna was born. At this time he lists Drangodd as his father living in Hannover. The second application dated for 9 May 1922 lists Drangodd as deceased. His visa application describes him at the age of 45 as being 5'1" with light grey eyes, light hair tinged with grey and occupied as a baker.
Sometime in his life he married a Frederika A who was born in 1866, 14 years younger than himself. They had one son listed as living with them on the 1930 census form. Hugo Victor age 31 was single and drove the bakery truck. The family lived in Nakin twonship of Wayne MI. Hugo was born 6 August 1898
Emil was born 15 May 1859 in Kretzschan, Saxony and left the port of Hamburg aboard the "Hammonia", arriving in the states 1 July, 1884. Five years later, on 10 March 1899 hecame a naturalized citizen of the United States in Ward 2 Detroit MI.
He applied for a travel visa to Germany twice. The first time was 12 February 1904, one month after Erna was born. At this time he lists Drangodd as his father living in Hannover. The second application dated for 9 May 1922 lists Drangodd as deceased. His visa application describes him at the age of 45 as being 5'1" with light grey eyes, light hair tinged with grey and occupied as a baker.
Sometime in his life he married a Frederika A who was born in 1866, 14 years younger than himself. They had one son listed as living with them on the 1930 census form. Hugo Victor age 31 was single and drove the bakery truck. The family lived in Nakin twonship of Wayne MI. Hugo was born 6 August 1898
Meet Erna Gerbstadt
I was growing frustrated with trying to find Gramma Ada through regular searches. Even running her name through the Jewish resource filter at ancestry turned up nothing. So since I had found that Grampa arrived in the States in '25, and his first child was born in 27 or 28, I reasoned that perhaps he and gramma were married before they left Germany. So when I plugged gramma's first name in with Grampa's surname, I got quite a surprise. I found one female emigre from Hannover... Erna.
Erna,born 1 January 1903, left the port Bremen aboard the "S.S Muenschen" on 12 January 1927 and arrived in New York, New York 23 January 1927 with a final destination listed as Detroit MI. At 24 years old, Erna was listed as single with no occupation and having last lived in Hannover. Her nearest relation in her home country was listed as Armin Gerbstaedt at Concordiastrasse 8, Hannover. This is the same information that Grampa listed on his ships registry. She stated that she was to visit an uncle, Emil in Wayne MI.
Her visa describes her as 5'5", blonde hair with blue eyes and a fair complexion with no birthmarks. Aside from a naturalization tag, no other record of Erna Gerbstadt exists in this database.
I have had a little time since finding her yesterday to ask myself a few questions, which I hope Kevin will answer... attempt to answer. Why would she come to Michigan and not stay with grampa? He was here two years before her and in the same city as their uncle, the same city in which she was to reside. My next question is what happened to her? I found Emil and a wife, Frederika A. in the census record of 1930. No Erna is listed in their household. Where did she go? She arrived in 27, either the same year or just before Anne was born to Alfred and Ada. Had she been coming to help care for a newborn infant? Had she come hoping to find marriage and a family of her own? Did she find that? But now I really want to know, among so many other things... why did I not know about her? And how did she just disappear?
Erna,born 1 January 1903, left the port Bremen aboard the "S.S Muenschen" on 12 January 1927 and arrived in New York, New York 23 January 1927 with a final destination listed as Detroit MI. At 24 years old, Erna was listed as single with no occupation and having last lived in Hannover. Her nearest relation in her home country was listed as Armin Gerbstaedt at Concordiastrasse 8, Hannover. This is the same information that Grampa listed on his ships registry. She stated that she was to visit an uncle, Emil in Wayne MI.
Her visa describes her as 5'5", blonde hair with blue eyes and a fair complexion with no birthmarks. Aside from a naturalization tag, no other record of Erna Gerbstadt exists in this database.
I have had a little time since finding her yesterday to ask myself a few questions, which I hope Kevin will answer... attempt to answer. Why would she come to Michigan and not stay with grampa? He was here two years before her and in the same city as their uncle, the same city in which she was to reside. My next question is what happened to her? I found Emil and a wife, Frederika A. in the census record of 1930. No Erna is listed in their household. Where did she go? She arrived in 27, either the same year or just before Anne was born to Alfred and Ada. Had she been coming to help care for a newborn infant? Had she come hoping to find marriage and a family of her own? Did she find that? But now I really want to know, among so many other things... why did I not know about her? And how did she just disappear?
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